You get what you pay for

by LeeCaz on Sep 23, 2009 5:35 PM EDT Comment 34 comments

Hey guys. Here is an article I wrote for Bucscentral about our secondary. You can view the original here:

http://www.bucscentral.com/general-news/you-get-what-you-pay-for

So, after some review of the Buccaneers much maligned secondary, I have come to the conclusion that the front office is responsible for the poor play of this unit. Only two of the players currently on the roster were selected in the 1st or 2nd rounds of the draft. We have been making miracles for so long with late round draft selections that I think they just thought they could continue doing it. Take a look for yourselves.

Will Allen- 4th round pick from Ohio State
Ronde Barber- 3rd round pick from Virginia
Torrie Cox – 6th round pick from Pittsburgh
Marcus Hamilton- 7th round pick from Virginia
Corey Lynch- 6th round pick from Appalachian State
Elbert Mack- Undrafted
Jermaine Phillips- 5th round pick from Georgia
Tanard Jackson- 4th round pick from Syracuse
Sabby Piscitelli- 2nd round (last pick of round) pick from Oregon State
Aqib Talib- 1st round pick from Kansas

Now with exception of Barber, who has been a stalwart of this defense for ages and perhaps Jackson and Talib, all of these players have pretty much played as you would expect for their draft position. Except for Piscitelli, who just can’t seem to get this NFL thing figured out.

Compare this with teams like the Redskins, who currently have three first round picks (Hall, Landry, and Rogers) comprising their secondary.

Why hasn’t the front office addressed this need in free agency? What does this say about Morris’ ability to judge talent? These are his guys. Don’t be so upset about the play of our secondary Bucs fans. After all, you get what you pay for.

Content provided by a member of Buc 'Em.

0 recs | Comment 34 comments | Add comment

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Oh yeah

This is pretty funny. I came across this when I was doing basic research for the article.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/tam/roster

Scroll down and check out Marcus Hamilton’s salary for this season.

LMAO

Yahoo Fail

by LeeCaz on Sep 23, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

HOT DAMN

10,295,000

Who is this guy and why was he never used?

WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
ALSO! NOW THE HEAD OF THE PUFFY-ROD BANDWAGON.

by Some other guy who does not care on Sep 23, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last year,

you guys put him on your active roster for Griese’s coming out party in Chicago. I think he had a pick. Right after the game the Bucs released him and Chicago signed him. He played in I think it was like 10-11 games for the Bears then they released him.

He didn’t look that good when he was on the field. Looked athletic but also seemed to lack instincts. I can’t imagine how he got that much money. It almost has to be a typo.

by Fridge72 on Sep 25, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahahaha

i woulda never saw that

by rjblitz02 on Sep 23, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not a good article

It is pretty apparent that you had your judgment then found evidence that supported your side. We didn’t pick many 1st round corners and safeties, but then you compare us to the REDSKINS? who have a total clown in D.Hall?

If you really wanted to provide an insightful article then you should’ve investigated our and showed the results of all 32 teams. Then we could see how we stack up with the rest of the league. I am assuming that we are near the middle in draft placement of CB’s. 2nd and 3rd round safeties are very good prospects.. usually top 5-10. It is rare to draft safeties in the first round.

Now consider just our starters.
Talib 1st, Barber 3rd, Pisc 2nd, and Jackson 4th.

Take out Barber and Jackson because we know they are good players.

Talib 1st round CB
Pisc 2nd round Safety

I think that it all shows that our unproven starters have good draft positions.

by miracles83 on Sep 24, 2009 1:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't talk about D. Hall....

I’ve known him since he was 5…..he is not a clown, he is a good kid. He runs on his emotions alot and because of his play, he is showing his fustration. He can get into ProBowl form again, he is adjusting to a new defense for the third year. Can’t count last year because he arrived late in the season. He will get it straight.

I do agree with you about what draft positions hold. Ryan Leaf would be a Hall of Famer QB if that was completely true.

The Patriots have shown us in the past decade how the draft should go. Have top notch scouts and pick quality players in the lower 1st round. Trade an older player and get two 1st round rookies the next year. Constant rotation of youth and aquiring quality Free Agents.

by buccanator on Sep 24, 2009 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't take it personally.

He has acted like a ‘clown’ on and off the field since he has been in the league. “Aloha, See you in highway.” He is good friends with Chad Johnson and his demeanor is similar.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 24, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has had zero off the field issues

by buccanator on Sep 25, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was a pro bowler in Atlanta.. nowhere else

I don’t know the kid nor do I care about knowing him. There’s a good chance that I’d like him if I ever met him and I would have a great conversation with him just as I would with you.. in other words, I am indifferent to him as a person.

But the fact remains, in a world that magnifies everything a football player does and says, his words and actions can be very poorly chosen. I don’t think he is a bum like some football players, but he could probably use a good PR specialist.

.. See my comment below replying to Leecaz about my argument against Hall in this article

by miracles83 on Sep 24, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The primary point I was making

is that the Bucs secondary is pretty much put together from late round draft picks and undrafted players. Aside from Talib, who may or may not pan out. They haven’t taken anyone in the secondary in the top three rounds of the draft in years. I leave out Piscitelli because he sucks. We could have actually traded the pick that we used for him for Lito Sheppard. Think about that.

Let’s look at some safeties in the NFL and you tell me if they are good 1st round picks.

Ed Reed
Troy Polamalu
Michael Griffin
Laron Landry
Kenny Phillips

Now second round:

Brian Dawkins
Darren Sharper
Bob Sanders
Nick Collins

Now third round:
Adrian Wilson
OJ Atogwe

I think you can see there is a noticable drop off in talent. It is much more rare to find talented players in the secondary past the second round. Hence the title of the article “You get what you pay for” When our secondary is comprised mostly of late round draft picks, you can expect late round talent.

Perhaps you would want to sit there and go through a list of every NFL secondary, but most people don’t have the time or patience to read through that.

Plus, I wouldn’t be riding Jackson’s nuts too much just yet. We have yet to see if he can perform at the same level in this system. He has always been adequate but not great.

by LeeCaz on Sep 24, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also:

What’s your primary problem with Deangelo Hall? He didn’t like Bobby Petrino? News flash, none of the Falcons liked Bobby Petrino. Say what you want about the guy but he has been to the Pro Bowl multiple times and already has 23 career interceptions.

by LeeCaz on Sep 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My problem with Hall

is that he has been horrible since leaving Atlanta. He didn’t even make it a whole season in Oakland and he was opposite the best corner in the league. He might be talented but he is to eager to go for the pick and big play thereby allowing him to get beat repeatedly (am I writing for D. Hall or S. Piscitelli?).

I don’t know why you replied with the list of safeties since both of our starting safeties are 2nd and 3rd round guys same as you listed above. As a matter of fact, our better safety was drafted in a later round than our safety in learning.

by miracles83 on Sep 24, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tanard Jackson is a 4th round pick, as is Allen

You say safety in learning. How long does Sabby get a pass in your book?

by LeeCaz on Sep 24, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Jackson was a 3rd?

Well Jackson is a good player either way. Will Allen is not a starter but he is a very good backup and special teams player.

My opinion doesn’t matter much, but I don’t think Sabby should get a pass at all. Ruud had 2 years of waiting and took control once he started. Sabby should be able to do the same.. but I guess he gets a pass as long as coaches are willing to give.

by miracles83 on Sep 24, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

drop off?

bob sanders and brian dawkins have led thier defense to great great seasons, they are arguabley just as good as the players you mentioned in the 1st round.
If you cant look up all the players, dont bother listing a comparison.

by Hook85 on Sep 25, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you should read the whole comment

instead of just the sentences that jump out at you.

“I think you can see there is a noticable drop off in talent. It is much more rare to find talented players in the secondary past the second round.”

I was saying the drop off in talent is big between the 2nd and 3rd for secondary players.

by LeeCaz on Sep 27, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drop Off

I understand there is probly a drop off from the 3rd round and down, but I did read everything, you wrote directly after the list of players…’I think you can see there is a noticable drop off in talent." Leaving me to think you are talking about the players listed above. The next sentence just came off to me as another point. If you said I think you can see there is a noticable drop off in talent after the 2nd round I would of understood, even though sandy makes a good point below about the Barber.

by Hook85 on Sep 27, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've got a column coming soon, I hope,

on roster makeup. I don’t think there’s anything to it.

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 24, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

anything to it as far as success goes?

I think high draft picks equal higher talent. You can’t expect to continuously find diamonds in the rough.

by LeeCaz on Sep 24, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Without spoiling my column

I think draft status is too overhyped. I compare three teams (including the Bucs) and draft position to see what’s what.

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 24, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looking forward to it

I wish I would have put more time into mine. Wrote it in about twenty minutes. I guess by miracles83 comment that is pretty evident. It would be cool to use the Patriots as an example. They stockpile draft picks and just cull the herd.

by LeeCaz on Sep 24, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't let me comment discourage you

It was a very good idea and concept for an article. You just need to really put more research into writing something like this. You also need to step away from skewing the results to prove your point. You would likely be thrown to the wolves if this piece was written professionally… but its a good start and shows you have a lot of potential.

by miracles83 on Sep 24, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've got no desire

to write professionally. Been there and done that in college. It’s more fun to write blogs where you can skew the stats in your favor shamelessly.

Kudos to you for calling me out for being lazy and biased.

by LeeCaz on Sep 24, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your right about draft status....look a the Bucs picks in the late 80's

and early 90’s……top picks….ugly

by buccanator on Sep 25, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Article is not good, at ALL!

Your team cant be full of 1st and 2nd rounders. There are 22 players total, to have a team full of 1st/2nd rounders that would take 10 years of perfect drafting. Wich is impossible. Another team inst going to trade the bucs’s a 1st/2nd round player for nothing, we will have to give up a high draftee player. Unless we trade for a washed up player, just becuase he was a high draft pick. This isnt Baseball you cant sign a bunch of players every off season, NFl has a cap, even if they didnt the Bucs wouldnt be the highest biddder.

PLUS your redskins team full of high draftees was 7th in the league last year against the pass, the bucs were 4th, and they were 3rd in total picks, while the redskins were 20th.

So this isnt a bias or skewed post its just dumb with no logic.

by Hook85 on Sep 25, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ALright, we don't need to go around calling people dumb.

If you don’t agree, that’s fine, but he took the time to do some research and expressed his opinion. If you want to disagree, at least do so in professional manner.

www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer

by Buc Wild on Sep 25, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

o man...

I dont think hes dumb, just the post was dumb. sorry wasnt thinking it would sound that bad.

by Hook85 on Sep 25, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I especially wouldn't be calling me dumb

with as many typos and misspelled words in your comment. The NFL has a ton of turnover every season with free agents more often than staying. The Bucs have spent little to no money (not for the lack of trying, ie Haynesworth).

As for the Skins being better than the Buc’s in pass defense. Why don’t you check out the stats this year buddy?

They have spent less money than other NFL team in the past five years. Five years! You get what you pay for. If you don’t put any money into defensive personnel you are going to have a bad defense. Period.

by LeeCaz on Sep 27, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oops

meant to say “free agents leaving more often than staying”

by LeeCaz on Sep 27, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand

your base arguement, that the buc’s fans shouldnt expect anything more then what the management has put into it.

But implying that a secondary is good or bad becuse they dont have high high draft players is not a strong arguement.

I know there is a lot of Free Agents each year, but the Buc’s arnt the Yankees, and if they are not expensive theres a reason why. How many great DB’s do you see on the block every season. Not that many, and when there is one there is a lot of other factors that have to be wieghed on signing him.

So the Buc’s have had the same gene pool of secondary the past 10 years, not the same players, but the same type of players. The Buc’s have been known for being great on defense. So you are saying becuase the Buc’s defense this season alone is bad becuase of the amount of high draft picks? You dont think there is any other factors to consider? Such as losing the best DC of all time and many other factors.

by Hook85 on Sep 27, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of Draft picks,

Check out mostly all mock drafts for 10 draft right now. They have us going after Suh, Mccoy, Okung, or Dez Bryant- Scary.

WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
ALSO! NOW THE HEAD OF THE PUFFY-ROD BANDWAGON.

by Some other guy who does not care on Sep 27, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dez Bryant would be nice.

Like I’ve said many times though. I really would like to get Eric Berry or Taylor Mays. I can’t believe they have us drafting McCoy. That is pretty dumb.

by LeeCaz on Sep 27, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Colt, Gerald Mccoy

DT from Texas

WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
ALSO! NOW THE HEAD OF THE PUFFY-ROD BANDWAGON.

by Some other guy who does not care on Sep 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, Seriously

Nobody cares about our safety position or they think that its good as is- round 2 is mostly CBs. Im more amazed they we need a tackle that badly. So need Josh Freeman to start.

WHOO, LUKE! LUKE! LUKE!
ALSO! NOW THE HEAD OF THE PUFFY-ROD BANDWAGON.

by Some other guy who does not care on Sep 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs