Can Bates make the new defense work?

6 months ago UNFNOLE 8 comments 0 recs |

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Hate to be a pessimist

But I don’t think so. Anytime you try and change the defensive scheme of a team you’re in for a rough year or two.

I really didn’t understand when they signed Bates. We’ve had a very successful defense here for a decade, and all of the personnel to execute it, and all of a sudden you let everyone go and try and rebuild it into something different. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

At least with the Packers (who are doing the same thing) they had a questionable defense to begin with, so you can see why they’d try and switch schemes.

Basically what the bucs are doing now makes about as much sense as if Pittsburgh randomly decided to switch to a 4-3.

Bring me Stanley. Alive if possible, dead... just as good.

by King Luongshanks on May 27, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I also thought there were better options for a DC.

However, trying to keep the same system would have been difficult because the level of coaching available with that scheme just wasn’t there. And remember, our defense was middle of the road last year. This personnel didn’t fit that scheme much anymore.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on May 27, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the only reason our defense was mediocre last year was the lack of pass rush. Drafting Peria Jerry would have done a lot to address that issue. Ideally Morris should’ve been the DC, Jags the OC and somebody else as HC.

Bring me Stanley. Alive if possible, dead... just as good.

by King Luongshanks on May 29, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree....

We were 19th in rush defense and gave up almost 120 yards in the rush game each week. The pass rush was an issue, for sure, but so was the lack of size and physicality on the line, no depth, and poor tackling angles by Cato June and (yes) Derrick Brooks.

Peria Jerry MAY have helped the pass rush (though it is rare that a rookie DT comes in and makes a difference in the pass rush), but he would have hindered out ability to plug holes and give Ruud and company more room to make plays. I think we did a nice job of addressing this with Roy Miller.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Jun 1, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to disagree. The Tampa two was really tired out.

The only reason it worked for us was because we had future hall of famers working it. You dont just go out and get hall of fame guys, they come along once in a great while.
This Tampa Two was driven by a hall of fame Defensive Tackle. Without Warren Sapp, our Tampa Two would have been no better than Chicago’s or Indianapolis’ version. Above average.
Its a great defense to go to when your ahead, but when your not ahead, you have to run something else.
Thats not to say T2 was all we were running, of course Monte ran a lot of other formations, but that was Monte or Tonys D. When he left, The D left Too.
It was time for a change.
I for one felt we could not keep a defense around where your average blogger knew the weak points. I mean everyone in the Bay area should be able to teach the Tampa Two to a powder Puff team by now LOL.

My biggest question is Why does everyone think the Defense is going to suck?
Because we dont recognize the names?
Because if the backups were good enough they wouldnt have been backups??? Really? Like Barett Ruud? Like Earnest Graham?
Because we saw these guys not play well on the line last year but not realizing they are being asked to do different things this year? Because Sabby had to be told where to line up but this year knows as much about where to line up as the guy who told him?

You want to know whos going to have a good defense, the teams that have a good special teams coverage unit, of which ours has been the Best. Why? Because special team headhunters are made up of back up defenders!

This defense may surprise you, maybe not week one, but by week 6, it should be.

Just think, last year if we would have gotten Brett Favre, maybe WE would have lost 4 of last 5 games of the season like the Jets.....DOH!!!

by Niko Houllis on May 29, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There is a TON to address here.... Let me try

I agree with your sentiment about the Tampa 2. You nailed it.

I don’t know that I think the defense is going to “suck.” I do think we will be mediocre at best though. We will haven’t addressed our pass rushing issues, we lost a lot of depth in the secondary and are relying on a rookie to solve our run game issues. Phillips, while he is talented, isn’t going to provide any more run support than DB did in his later years.

I don’t think because we have un-hearlded players on our roster, it makes us bad. What does concern me is how they have played in the past. Do you trust Sims and White to miraculously produce this year? They may, but you can’t predict that. Do you trust Sabby to become a playmaker? Maybe, but again, based on his past play, you can’t predict that. We gotta go by what we have seen so far Niko. I think we will be around 18-22 in total defense next year.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Jun 1, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bates' recent record...

I’m a Broncos fan, and I was a bit confused about why Jim Bates has been held up as the answer to the Bucs’ woes on defense. In ’07, he was hired by Pat Bowlen to transition the team to a 3-4. The Broncos then proceeded to post historically bad numbers especially against the run, and Shanahan forced Bates to go back to a traditional 4-3, only acting as a figurehead DC for the remainder of the season.

As in many things, seemingly, the Broncos are Paralelling the Bucs this season as they try to shore up a defense that was 31st in the league forcing turnovers last year by hiring the head coach of the team that was 32nd.

by Velveeta on Jun 5, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure if he is hearlded as "the answer"

to our defensive woes, simply a band-aid for a Kifflin-less defense. One thing Kiffin (and his staff) were so good at was getting his players to execute the scheme. He was also known for having good pass rushers and linebackers who made plays. Last year, none of this was the case. The talent was slipping, players were aging and they had several holes. So what do they do? Switch the scheme.

Thanks for chiming in though. It always concerns me when I hear from you Bronco fans who are consistently confused by the hire of Bates. I thought Morris and Dominik put together a great staff minus the DC.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Jun 9, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs