This isn't about QB Josh Freeman, it's about the Organization

by witty on Apr 26, 2009 9:31 AM EDT Comment 21 comments

"I know the majority of Bucs Fans absolutely hate this pick, but at the very least support the guy. It’s not his fault the Bucs traded up to get him, that McCown has never stepped up to the fore front, or that Josh Johnson has yet to either." - Quote via JScott

I'm not blaming Freeman. You're right it's not his fault. But it still doesn't mean we gotta eat this bleepburger and proclaim it filet mignon.

This is more out of frustration with a team's ownership, the team's management, the coaches. This is more out of anger that the Bucs used their top overall draft pick unwisely: not to fix glaring needs at other positions on the team but to indulge in some kind of 'We've got a Franchise QB neener neener' ego boost.

Here's the Bucs current roster for DT:

Bradwell, Chris
Moore, Dre
Sims, Ryan
Hovan, Chris

Other than Hovan, which other guy strikes fear into the hearts of Centers and Guards and QBs and RBs?

Here's the Bucs roster for WR:

Bryant, Antonio
Seven ~~dwarfs~~ draft busts and walk-ons

Here's the Bucs roster for OLB:

Not Brooks, Derrick. Multiply by 4. Throw in a starting SAFETY

I exaggerate. But not by much.

We're looking at a Tampa Bay Bucs team that last December went through one of the team's most horrific collapses ever. And this is coming from an organization that has the entire 1983-1996 era of disaster to compare with. And where did that collapse take place? The defense. A defense that suddenly went porous against running attacks. A defense that gave up HOW MANY YARDS AND RUSHING TDs to the likes of THE RAIDERS?!?!

And where has the Bucs organization focused nearly ninety percent of their rebuilding efforts? On offense. The only major acquisition to defense was getting LB Angelo Crowell, and he's coming off an IR year.

This isn't about Freeman. This is about the Glazers, who are acting more like the Culverhouse era than ever before. Yes, getting rid of Gruden had to be done: Chucky lost that team, proved over seven years his 'offensive genius' was merely sheer luck of facing a team in the Super Bowl he knew backward and forward. But the Glazers went into INSANE mode, putting a rookie coach (Morris) who hadn't even been an assistant head coach/coordinator with major responsibilities yet. The owners seemed obsessed with the idea the Bucs should have drafted a Franchise QB this past decade, when previous experience showed (Doug, Vinny, Steve Young, Trent "I Am Trent Dilfer!" Dilfer, even Shaun King) that the Bucs really don't do so well with drafted QBs... ever... And now we've got this.

A raw QB the scouts universally say needs years to develop, a QB gotten with a top draft pick that could have easily been taken with a second rounder pick. The team could have traded down, didn't even matter to try for a Second rounder we could have taken an extra Fifth or Sixth if offered, and still gotten this guy. And I ask, if Freeman was such a certainty for the Bucs, if our coach and our front office guys knew they wanted him from Day One, why did they trade away the second rounder pick where they could have still gotten him? Didn't they think this whole thing through?

Look, Freeman could come up with a cure for cancer, and go out and save the endangered Florida Panther on his days off. It still doesn't excuse the fact the Bucs organization is not impressing us fans with their decision-making skills: it doesn't excuse the team from not giving us fans a lot of things in which to have faith.

Right now, not a lot of faith at all.

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I have to agree . . .

To force the pick of a raw/rookie/unknown QB where there are SO many other pressing needs for this team makes you wonder about the direction we’re headed.

I like the addition of Leftwich, I’m fine w/ giving McCown a chance to start – the Freeman pick was not only unnecessary, it may be one that has negative ramifications for years to come.

Come on guys; get your act together in that war room!!

by mabucfan on Apr 26, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

here's what it boils down to:

Josh Freeman > Luke McCown + Byron Leftwich + Josh Johnson + Brian Griese in the Organizations eyes…

It’s as simple as that. This fan base may not see the QB position as a need, but we DON’T spend anytime with the QB’s on the roster. None, Zero, Zilch…

Leftwich is a journeyman, McCown in four seasons with the Bucs has 3 total starts amongst ample opportunities to take over the position, Griese is on the back 9 of his career and he never factored in as a starter. And Josh Johnson as much as i love his td-to-int ratio in college, he essentially played teams slightly better than my high school he’s raw as it comes…

Raheem and Mark have put their careers on the line with this selection, I have a fair amount of faith that they made the right decision.

They would have looked like jack asses either route had they picked up DE Michael Johnson who we all wanted them to take who is STILL on the board…

Like i told mabucfan it’s impossible to defend this selection from a stats standpoint or even a needs based standpoint…. but it’s not our careers on the line. Raheem has a three year contract he doesnt have the time to tank this season, grab another QB next off-season, groom him and hope he’s a world beater in year three….

You have a valid concern that the majority of Bucs fans share with you, me included, i just choose to defer to the professionals on this one (no, not you Mel Kiper)

Buc 'Em Your SBNation Tampa Bay Bucs Blog where Dull Boys are not allowed!!

by JScott on Apr 26, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It seems obvious to me...

The front office is doing everything in their power to throw this year and get the first pick next year. A Franchise QB usually takes a year to start playing well. I wanted the bucs to do one of two things:1 rebuild, let us know they were looking towards the future or 2 keep things going, we were 9-3 at one point last season. Up till now I had no idea what the front office was up to but now it seems obvious.

by exxtremm on Apr 26, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what will they take with that

pick though? Another QB?

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by JScott on Apr 26, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok. I'll add

I agree with you guys a little here n there. But I have to say one thing I think the LB’s will be fine. Granted we haven’t really seen much of Hayes or Black but I think they could be really good. Black was great on SPT And have did have a TD last season. Though they won’t be Brooks we all know that. The real whole is CB and DT. I really can’t understand Hovan still being there, yea he’s decent but he’s not made for today’s NFL. If I was coaching this team I would start Moore and Sims two big bodies and see how that goes. Make it hard to move them so Ruud and company have an easier time stopping the run, bring in Hovan and whoever on third down. The trade down theory was a no brainer I said that before.

by Rays Genius on Apr 26, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the thing with Sims and Moore

is although you want massive hogs clogging up the middle you don’t want them to be so heavy that they can’t get out of the way and end up picking our LB’s from making the tackle. I think that is the happy medium Bates has to find. I can’t imagine Greg Peterson gaining 30 pounds in four months being a factor. Hopefully Roy Miller can step in much like Zuttah did on the other side of the line and make an immediate impact. If you see his quotes on being drafted he is pissed that it took so long

i think we may be okay, but it’s going to be a tough season regardless due to the schedule we have

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by JScott on Apr 26, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if it's any consolation, they just took a DT.

That’s gonna keep me happy. Big 310 lb. dude from Texas who apparently did a lot of 2 gap work… sounds like a solid fit for Bates’ D. I hope they can find a decent value at DE sometime soon.

by OfficerRodFarva on Apr 26, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i dont agree with you at all. When have the bucs ever tried to make their offense better? never… that game against the raiders was lost because of defense, but also because of offense. Everyone knows we have never had a consistent offense. And who says we have holes in the D? isnt that why they let go of the old players? they want the young players to step up and make names for themselves. They think they are good enough to be starters

by ClipperMyth on Apr 26, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

exactly

at some point you have to defer to the coaches who are with these guys everyday… it’s tough being a fan, a fan of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

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by JScott on Apr 26, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dont think they could have gotten him in the 2nd round

i mean there has to be a reason for trading up.

by Roc on Apr 26, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yep

Buc 'Em Your SBNation Tampa Bay Bucs Blog where Dull Boys are not allowed!!

by JScott on Apr 26, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

If they pick up Leroy Hill that the hawks let go, I am not happy with the Freeman pick, but if We pick up Hill, than I will feel a lot better with the freeman pick.

by shadowchicken on Apr 26, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

could not disagree more...

Im not sure you lived through the Culverhouse years to even consider comparing the two ownerships.

I think its just that your so used to us drafting Defensive players and ignoring the offense, that when a major effort is done to change that, it is bothering you.

What you need to understand about that 4 game disaster, is that ITS OVER.
It wasnt a personnel problem. We were simply a beat up team, that was just NEVER in shape by the end of the year because of poor conditioning by the coaching staff. Raheem Morris has commented on the Bucs are going to go back to being tougher, FINISHING as he said. All you have to do is look at the collapse of 07 too, and youll see more out of shape Buc players, mostly older guys, since purged by Raheem.

On MNF, the Panthers exposed a weakness. Our tired personnel, mostly a nickle set if Pewter Report was correct, was kept on the field due to Panthers Offensive lineup which exploited mismatches against their running attack. By the fourth QTR, we were worn out, and we had so many nagging injuries at that time, it was no wonder.

NFL is a copy cat league. Atlanta, San Diego and Oakland simply copied that.

Fault Monte Kiffin for one thing over the last few years. He has been to the point of obsessiveness refused to alter his game plan in game. Now maybe it was the leaving to College, but according to Pewter Report, Monte’s open door policy was anything but that in the last month. Another Example is the 07 Bucs at Colts game. Peyton picked us apart 6 yards at a time. Did Kiffin do anything to change the defense? No. Cover 2 till we bust.

Well we Busted! But that 4 game slide has a lot more to do with things Current ownership and Coaching staff ARE DOING SOMETHING TO FIX. Toughening up the Bucs by practicing in pads, Cutting over the hill players and going young, very similar to where this all began back in 1996, thats what the Bucs needed to do more to correct that 4 game slide. Also, the defensive philosophy is completely changed. There will be no 3 Technique DT this year. We will not be an over defense any more. were going to line up on the guy now.

So please, do not compare the 4 game slide to anything from 83-96. I spent the same amount of time that I spent my life in public school system waiting for the Bucs to break out of their funk. Ive seen NOTHING that reminds me of Mr Culverhouse in the Glazers. They are STILL paying for Gruden, Allen….as well as the new coaching staff.

You further your ignorance over Bucs history by throwing the only true Buc QB franchise qb, Doug Williams, into that mix of guys who were wasted to replace him. Doug Williams took over the Bucs 2 games after 0-26. In 8 games, the Bucs were.500!. The next year, we were in the NFC Championship game. Your going to put him in the same boat as the rest? It was culverhouses decision to get rid of him in the first place! Finally, the Glazers are smart enough to realize if you want to be a dominant team, you need a real dominant QB. Not someone elses Cast off.

I think you need to review your Bucs History.

Niko H

..and with the 17th Pick of the 2009 draft, The Tampa Bay Buccaneers remove the Doug Williams Curse!

by Niko Houllis on Apr 26, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

I wonder how brilliant scouts were

when they said Emmitt Smith is too small to play running back. I wonder how many scouts knew Shelton Quarles would be the key to a SuperBowl Victory. If scouts knew everything, then there wouldnt be the term DRAFT BUST, or Finding a Gem!

I guess I just dont criticize a coaching regime until years later when you can look back and say that was a dumb move, or that was a great one. As for now, why the hell are Cooks, Plumbers, Office Managers, Customer Service Reps, Computer Operators, Pool Cleaners, Lawn Service men, and others, trying to act like they know how to be a general manager or a coach? Not one poster on the internet ANYWHERE, any site, is qualified to coach a Powder Puff team.

Its the reason each year people predict the same teams that finished first last year to finish first this year, NO ONE KNOWS WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN.

If your a real Bucs fan, you CHEER THE BUCS. Thats ALL THE BUCS, the coach, the GM, the owner, the logo, the QB, the RB, whatever, and if the team trades QBs, then you cheer him on too! Thats what being a fan is. Being a fanatical follower….of a team!

I was a gruden supporter. But hes gone now. Now I cheer on Raheem Morris, because I know for a fact, he knows more about football than every person who is going to post something today on any site.
Niko H

including me!

..and with the 17th Pick of the 2009 draft, The Tampa Bay Buccaneers remove the Doug Williams Curse!

by Niko Houllis on Apr 26, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I'm slowly getting on the wagon.

I’ve been watchin all the tape I can find on this guy and he looks like a playmaking QB with a big arm and an impressive release on the run. In fact I would most worry about him being one of those that try to make too many plays and makes mistakes in the process.

He seems very confident, but flirts with being flat out cocky (which is fine but not so fine when it comes to rookies) But if he can develope quickly in what is a pretty simple system with Bates (who groomed Matt Ryan) and if he can play within his limits, I think he can rack up alot of wins for this franchise.

Now my biggest fear is him getting tossed in from the get go like Ryan… but I don’t think he’s that ready. This defense is in no shape to support a rookie quarterback right now…at least not Freeman.

by AP-Pirate on Apr 27, 2009 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

being 6'6 and recording

14 touchdowns on the ground last season has me intrigued… i can see him pressing like Jeff Garcia or Trent Dilfer to make things happen. Hopefully Freeman matures with age and can overcome his antsiness…

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by JScott on Apr 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i love this pick..

it takes time to build the kind of team raheem morris wants to build. and i’m willing to give it to him, and to mr. freeman.

i must say though, i can’t wait to see the kid on the field… (even if i know he should sit for a while)

by coque429 on Apr 27, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

definitely

welcome to the site man!

Buc 'Em Your SBNation Tampa Bay Bucs Blog where Dull Boys are not allowed!!

by JScott on Apr 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

5th rounder in the first.

What is the difference between Josh Johnson and Freeman? Name a prospect any prospect, especially at QB that was drafted on athletic potential with either minimal or questionable college production that has been successful? Big bodies, arms, speed, and athletism doesn’t win football games. Doug Flutie, Jeff Garcia , etc JUST WIN! They produced everywhere they got the opportunity to play and produced in the most important way, they helped the TEAM WIN. Freemen’s team LOST. Blame the program all you like, he was the QB and leader and KSU LOST. His production was in the bottom half of the Big 12. Every scout, analyst, coach that talked about him said he made dumb, slow, or bad decisions CONSISTENTLY. The most consistent aspects of this kid’s football career so far is Losing, bad throws, and not living up to his potential. Either Josh post this in your locker and use it as motivation, win the job and then WIN Football games! If Freeman stayed in school, which from the development prospective he should have, he would be very lucky to rank in the top 5 QBs going into the 2010 draft, thus he came out and scored millions. Can’t blame the kid in anyway, and for the love of my Sunday sanity I hope he proves me terriably wrong and the organization right and earns those millions by WINNING. The franchise needs a QB, Sanchez or Stafford would be decent shots at that role, every other QB in this years draft is luck of the draw for the team, incredible work for the QB to achieve that status. The Bucs need for this year was to rebuild the defense, at 19 they had instant starters anywhere in the front 7 except MLB. The Glazers have built a franchise to be proud of but this was an Al Davis like moment. You can see from the rest of the draft (including Winslow) the front office did an excellent job. Leftwich is hear beacuse there is almost 0 chance Freeman sees the field this year. It will be an interesting 3 way battle for the job which McCnow should win. If one of the Josh’s win the job it will be a mircale or the start of 0-16 season.

by BucsinTO on Apr 27, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

To be fair...

A raw QB the scouts universally say needs years to develop, a QB gotten with a top draft pick that could have easily been taken with a second rounder pick.

A lot of people made this same argument against Flacco last year. It’s not outlandish to think the guy can succeed, and it’s unreasonable to label him a reach and a failure before he’s even played a down of football (just the same way I think it was unreasonable of Morris to declare him the “franchise QB” after he was on the roster for all of 12 minutes).

Time will tell what the guy can do. I’m not soiling myself with joy over the pick, but I’d like to see what he brings to the table in a pro offense before passing judgement.

by OfficerRodFarva on Apr 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs