Bates has Bucs following in Bronco's footsteps
"Bates' philosophical synopsis includes many of the same terms espoused by (former coordinator). Accountability. Fundamentals. All-out pursuit. Steal the ball. The biggest difference is (former coordinator) never could consistently develop a strong pass rush, while Bates has a long history of coaching double-figure sack artists, most recently Jason Taylor and Aaron Kampman". Sounded good didn't it? This is what we were told in the offseason when we were given the (great) Jim Bates to replace the immortal Monte Kiffin here in Tampa. So we bit, and couldn't wait for Bucs corners smashing receivers off the line, and opposing runners hitting walls, Quarterbacks getting squashed and balls being thrown downfield to empty positions on the field.
Problem is, well, None of the last paragraph has happened so far, and the first paragraph is taken from a Denver Broncos media outlet in the 2007 offseason; an offseason Bates was given Carte-Blanch to fix a Bronco's Defense that gave up 26.1 points per game in the last 10 games of 2006.
Another nice surprise after the jump....
Before the commenting starts, let me make something clear; Yes...this is an about face for me. I've compared this team to 1996, the year Tony Dungy came in and the defense was lost at first, but improved each week. This is NOT 1996. That team got blown out opening day by the Packers by making 2 or 3 critical mistakes before the half that Brett Favre made the Bucs pay for with 2 quick scores before Tampa Bay even knew what hit. That ’96 team was never dead last in just about every single defensive statistic, nor the laughing stock of the NFL.
We know Raheem Morris and Mark Dominik were not keen on OC Jeff Jagodzinski, But did we tell the wrong coordinator to check out airfares on priceline.com?
Gaines Adams has actually gone backwards on us, something no one thought was possible, a testament to poor drafting that has plagued this team under Gruden/ Allen. But at least that will all change right?
Depends on who had control in the war room. Because the Broncos got that Credit Card statement and its due..! Mr. Bates went shopping in 2007 and came home with 3, that’s right, 3 upper round Defensive linemen. Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, and Marcus Thomas, two of which came from the Florida Gators. I guess they felt half of a College D Line was better than what they had. These three defensive linemen have an astounding 7.5 total sacks combined, in two full seasons, plus three games this year! And the best one, Crowder, did so well with his 4 sacks in 2007, (and none in 2008), that he is now on our team! And so the end result? Denver fell backwards from 15th in Sacks to 26th under Bates! Not to mention 29th overall defensively; With 3 premium draft picks on the line!
Its 6:30, does anyone know where Roy Miller and Kyle Moore are?!?!?
Ok, there is really nothing we can do about this right now, except watch the season unfold, and see if the Bucs, or the Broncos, used different personnel to run their draft. Makes you wonder If Dominic would let Bates do the picking, or just take in his opinion but mostly listen to his own scouts. All scouts are not created equal, and hopefully ours are a little more equal than others.
Otherwise, Mark Dominik and Raheem Morris will have some explaining to do at seasons end on how they missed the boat on BOTH position coordinators.
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What a sad, sad
Era we have had after the superbowl.
J.J LOVE SPREADS while RAHEEM MORRIS'S PLAN FOR NFLDOMINECION IS COMING TO AN END.
by Some other guy who does not care on Oct 3, 2009 8:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't there any other D-coord
available in the league?
J.J LOVE SPREADS while RAHEEM MORRIS'S PLAN FOR NFLDOMINECION IS COMING TO AN END.
by Some other guy who does not care on Oct 3, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes there is
The Glazers were willing to pay monte like a head coach I bet with a salary close to that we could convince charlie strong to leave Florida
by TampaBaysportfanforever on Oct 3, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No offense, but we have no idea what Strong would do in the NFL
Also Some other guy who does not care was asking if there were any other DC’s in the league. I think the goal was to get someone with some experience given that Rah and Jags had none at the NFL level.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
by Buc Wild on Oct 3, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greetings: I am a Bronco fan
I saw this article and wanted to respond for several reasons. When the Broncos hired Jim Bates, several Green Bay players commented that if the Broncos would work hard and learn Bates’ system, it would take a while but they would be very good. He was great with Miami and turned Green Bay around. Bates big problem with Denver was not who he drafted but sadly his head coach. After just a few games, Shanahan got impatient and changed the scheme. Bates had one foot out the door at that time.
Shanahan replaced Bates with Bob Slowik. Who is Slowik? The man Green Bay fired to bring in Bates to fix their defense.
It will take a little time but Bates will make your defense better. Don’t pull a Shanahan and give up hope too early.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Oct 3, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
actually, thats funny you should say that, because in doing my homework, I saw a blub about that and was going to run back to it.
..to look more into it. I did not know Slowik was the guy GB let go, but I did see that Shanahan started to fool around with his defense.
As I said in the piece, its too late now….we have to wait and see what happens. The Bucs sound like they are high on Crowder. and two years later, Denver’s Defense is improved to say the least. So maybe those picks did come out ok.
Still, AT THIS POINT, its starting to look like the move to Bates is 50/50 AT BEST.
Time will tell.
Thank You for bringing your opinions over to Buc’em! Thats what we want!!
by Niko Houllis on Oct 3, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually don't think it's Bates' fault...
People may hate this, but I think that it’s Morris’ fault that the Bucs Defense is deplorable. The problem is players aren’t buying into philosophies, because the head coach is throwing players that don’t perform under the bus. Dungy and Gruden didn’t do that. That is the team’s single biggest problem, the adolescence of the head coach. Accountability for losses start at the top of the organization, accountability for wins start at the bottom- this is how winning coaches leverage success and failure in the league. Bates has players that have to buy into his scheme. If no one bought into Tampa 2 even Dungy/Kiffin said it never would have worked. That said, accountability starts with Morris, until the seasons end, then it’ll reflect on the GM and Ownership… Poor Morris, I don’t know if he will learn the neccessary skills in time.
"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)
by chiefs_55 on Oct 3, 2009 12:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I'm quite sure the 2 players he's pointed out flaws to
Are not the cause of this mess. You have to have the right players. If 11 of us go, we can buy in all we want to.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 3, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes he called out two players, but...
He showed the team a bad example by calling out two players in front of the media. Something Morris will learn this season or be out of a job midseason next year, is that as a coach you are walking the “catwalk” for the team to see. This is something many young guys don’t get. Players have to execute, but players will go beyond execution for a good coach, I don’t see these players doing that for Morris, I hope it changes and he and the team grows…
"Put it on Film" (not on the glass)
by chiefs_55 on Oct 3, 2009 5:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I am a Maryland Terp fan
Right now the head coach Ralph Friedgen is on the hot seat for losing three games early in the season to teams we probably should have beaten. Turnovers, poor offense, poor defense, everything looked bad. I see some parallels with some Tampa fans complaining about our coaching staff. I still think it is ridiculous to throw any of the coaches under the bus this entire year. We lost our last four games last year, and looked miserable doing it. Obviously, we had to make some significant changes in player personnel. After only three games with an entirely new coaching staff, many new players in a new scheme, millions of dollars of cap room, and a terrible schedule, I think it is unfair to call any of them out yet. I think a coaching staff needs about three years to put an entirely new plan and good product on the field from where we were. How does anyone think Gruden would have faired against Dallas, Buffalo, and the Giants this year?
BTW the Friedgen haters are now eating some crow, Md beat Clemson today.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
by terp12 on Oct 3, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Defensive Improvement
I know that we just got beaten down by the Giants, but I believe that our defense is SLOWLY improving. Yes, we are dead last in the league, but the big plays are gone. Roy Miller is a rookie DT and he’ll be up and down all year. He struggled against the Giants but looked good in the first two games. Our depth is an issue as we played Buffalo tight until the final quarter. But, the big plays that hurt Sabby in game one have declined. Talib is a very talented second year player, who looks worse than he is due to the lack of pressure. If, and it is a big if, we can improve our pass rush, a lot of other pieces will fall into place. I think they need to use Quincy Black or Geno Hayes as more hybrid rush ends, using them to blitz, a la the zone blitz of the Steelers with James Harrison. If they can begin to mix that in, get Stylez White to improve, keep working on Gaines Adams and Crowder, we have some reason for hope. We get Tanard back after next week. With a high draft pick, we will be able to get Suh from Nebraska or McCoy from Oklahoma, the highest rated defensive tackles. Add a second or third round pass rusher and we have a better future. Also, let’s not forget that when your offense can not gain a first down through three quarters against a clear Super Bowl contender, the defense will always look worse than they are-no rest.
by bucsfandave on Oct 3, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well truthfully, you are correct.
Thats how changes will happen, slowly. Now did we not give up the long play because we had it covered? or did we play so deep Eli would have been sick to throw deep on us? Or the fact that their running game was producing so m uch, why throw deep once you have a 14-0 lead. We have GOT to stop getting behind so early, and I think this week is the first week we wont.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 3, 2009 9:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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