Grooming a young quarterback, but which one?
The Bucs wandered into the 2009 season with a veteran quarterback as the starter and two unproven young players behind him. The goal seemed to be let Leftwich lead us to a few wins, a losing record and then the front office would flip the switch on Freeman and that era would begin. I don't think anyone intended for Josh Johnsonto stick his name into the mix, but after three weeks of a beating, Leftwich was yanked, Johnson was put in to start, at least for the upcoming four games.
Then, in a rout of a loss in London, JJ was pulled, Freeman was put in, and it would seem that Freeman will be the guy for the rest of the year. I would like to point out that no one has announced Freeman is starting against Green Bay, it is speculation on my part, but it holds true to what I've thought all along. I always figured after a slow start and the bye week would be Freeman's most logical first start. The appearance in London did nothing to dissuade me from that opinion.
But where does this leave the Bucs at quarterback? More importantly, how should they bring Freeman along at this point?
You see, there are several ways to bring about a young quarterback. You can either throw them in the mix right away and let them start, you can allow them to sit on the bench for a few games and then finish the year up, or hand them a clipboard and a headset and tell them to get comfortable since they aren't seeing the field at all in Year 1. We have examples of successes and failures for each of those systems, and goes to show you that the plan should be tailored to the specific player you have.
But this brings up an issue with the Bucs and their front office/management. There is no doubt they want Freeman to succeed. Freeman succeeding would mean they were right in drafting him, and the more successful the QB, I would bet the team has a chance to be more successful.
There are a few things you can do to make it easier on a young quarterback. In no particular order you can run the ball more, shorten the playbook, call plays that feature that QB's strength, and game plan away from the dangerous situations. But was this done for JJ?
You see, JJ is, for all intensive purposes, a rookie. He saw no playing time last year and was thrown into the starting job on a bad team this year. But everything you do for a young quarterback to make him successful, well, the Bucs did the opposite. The Bucs haven't run the ball more, they haven't taken pages out of the playbook, and they certainly aren't playing to JJ's strengths. I'd almost argue they've done the exact opposite in most situations.
I'm not saying this was intentional, but it makes me question what they will do with Freeman. Let's assume that Freeman has the tools to be a successful QB in the league, he just needs coaching, as all young players do. Is this the right place for him? I mean, the staff has shown no ability to assist Johnson in his development to date, and Olson was the QB coach the last few years under Gruden, and we know how that went. McCown and Johnson were both under Olson's tutelage last year (and parts of this year) and there didn't seem to be any huge changes in either QB from last year to this year. In fact, McCown seemingly hit a plateau in terms of talent or coaching and was shipped out. Maybe it's the player, maybe it's the coach. The issue is, do the Bucs have what it takes to develop a young quarterback.
I don't want to debate if we think Freeman is a future Pro Bowler or bust because at this point, we have him. Everyone has been saying "We need to see him now to know what we have. If he sucks, then we can draft a QB next year." My biggest issue with that statement is, are we really going to give a rookie quarterback 6-10 games to prove himself? Hardly seems enough time to draw any conclusions, particularly on a team this bad. What if Freeman goes out, completes 48% of his passes with a 1 to 3 TD/INT ratio, does that mean he is forever a bust? I don't see how we can truly evaluate any young player in such a short time.
My other problem revolves on the JJ situation. As mentioned before, he is still a young player who will continue to develop. If we bring Freeman in, we are essentially giving up on Johnson after 4 games. Really? That's how much time you want to give to a young quarterback who has had almost no running game to work with, missing a Pro Bowl center, and playing against two strong defenses?
I can defend a lot of things the Bucs have done and will do. I can not defend or agree with a decision that pulls Johnson and declares him unfit to be a starter in the NFL after 4 games. I understand the need to see what Freeman has at some point, but do we give him 4 games? How about 8? You need probably two seasons of data before you can really draw conclusions. Flacco was not this good last year, Ryan didn't really come on strong until the second half of the year. Aaron Rodgers wasn't studly his first few games. Drew Brees didn't light the world on fire his first few years. Eli Manning, Kyle Orton, David Garrard all had a rough start that was followed up with success to varying degrees.
In my opinion, Johnson should have been given the majority of this year to learn, grow, and develop as a quarterback. I , like everyone else, want to know what we have in Freeman, but to give up on JJ so fast makes me wonder what the reaction will be to Freeman. If he comes out and leads us to 9 straight wins, then hats off to the young man. If he decides to play like a bad version of Jamarcus Russell (or is that the only version) then it's not good, but don't we give him the time to learn and develop?
My biggest fear is the irrational and overly quick trigger finger by the fans, media, and as it relates to JJ, the coaching staff. Again, nothing has been announced about JJ or Freeman, but I don't think JJ will be given anymore starts.
The most obvious thing to point to is that Raheem and Dominik's fates are tied to Freeman, so they want to get as much out of him as they can. Let him learn early, and let him learn often. I just think it's a mistake to continue the quarterback roulette. It may work fine when you remove a veteran for a veteran, but once you get to these young guys, they need time to learn.
It would seem to be that the goal was not to give JJ a chance to learn and win the job, but to merely fill the gap and allow Freeman to stay on the bench. Johnson at this point was just a stop gap quarterback whose 4-6 week fill in was masqueraded as a chance to win the job. Johnson didn't set any rookie records, but he has shown he has the tools to play. Time and coaching are definitely needed, unfortunately, he will receive neither with the Bucs.
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Im not so sure things weren't changed for JJs favor.
I saw a lot of plays from out of the shotgun since JJ was put in. I dont have an exact number, but since the Phily game, most of the snaps are coming from out of the Shotgun.
Your correct though. We need to do what the Jets are doing. 15 passes tops, no matter what the score or game conditions. 15-18 passes, with heavy emphasis on running. We will see.
I also have no problem with starting JJ for awhile longer with Freeman coming in the 4th quarter. I trust in their evaluation of him, as we all should be, since they are the coaches.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 28, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't been in the shotgun more.
I went back and through NFL.com looked at the play by play for every game. Here is the total number of plays in the shotgun by week.
Week 1 – 33 (Leftwich)
Week 2 – 44 (Leftwich)
Week 3 – 25 (Leftwich and Johnson)
Week 4 – 26 (Johnson)
Week 5 – 45 (Johnson)
Week 6 – 15 (Johnson)
Week 7 – 30 (Johnson and Freeman)
There is no uptick in shotgun snaps for JJ at all. In fact, it averages out to be less per game with JJ than with Leftwich. The coaching staff has not adjusted to JJ and put him in position to be successful. Leftwich is slower and may need the extra time with the shotgun, but JJ is young and still learning to read defenses. That extra vision could have been useful.
I don’t see much, if anything that was changed when JJ came in. Same playcalls, no misdirection or screens, light on the running game etc.
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by Buc Wild on Oct 28, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the problem with these numbers is they just tell us how many times they line up in the shotgun...
which can vary depending on the amount of plays the offense gets.
However, taking it a step further, you will see that a higher % of passing plays are from the shotgun formation since Josh Johnson took over rather than when Byron leftwich was in. Also, lets keep in mind that JJ skews the numbers from the Giants game because EVERY snap he took was from the shotgun, so we can really only look at the first two games.
1) 80% passing snaps out of Shotgun
2) 88%
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3)96% (because of JJs 100% shotgun formations)
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4)118% (meaning we even ran from the shotgun, that there were more SG attemps than pass attempts)
5) 90%
6)88%
7)100% (30 shotgun snaps, 30 pass attempts)
Conclusion; With Josh Johnson, we are in the shotgun for a greater % of our offensive plays than we were with Leftwich.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 28, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree with you, that Im sure they have a reason for doing so.
What ever that is…Vision, mobility, comfort, thats fine.
In some way this actually agrees with your whole premise, that the team is not setting a young QB up for success by not having a healthy running game which you cant do entirely out of the shotgun.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 28, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The percentages are about the same. I pulled all shotgun formations, so runs are included
But as a percentage of plays, I don’t see much difference between 88% and 90%. I think the shotgun is how this offense was designed, but they haven’t rolled him out, they haven’t set up screens or misdirections. It’s like they said “screw it, we aren’t changing our gameplan no matter who’s back there”
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by Buc Wild on Oct 28, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree!
My biggest fear is the irrational and overly quick trigger finger by the fans, media,
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 28, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also some factors that could play a role in JJ's development.
-Reps
In training camp the guy got 3rd string reps and then during preseason he was treated as the 4th string QB getting no playing time in the 3rd game and getting 2nd half duty behind the Future.
-Freeman
Since the Future has arrived, JJ was basically told that he might not be here anymore but has managed to keep a place on the team and even got his chances to start. But even then he knows that unless he plays like a hall of famer, Freeman could be the one in the huddle. Now, there are people that can not let that bother them, but not everyone can 100%.
by NewLogic on Oct 28, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OH I think if you take JJ, and put him on a strong team, he does alright.
There is no way to tell though..
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 28, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Johnson was given a raw deal
As I’ve said many times, I think they pulled Leftwich far too early, but to expect J.J. to be able to win with team that team that a veteran QB like Leftwich couldn’t win with is preposterous.
They are essentially saying to him “Hey kid, this guy has been doing this for years and can’t succeed, why don’t you get out there and show him what he is doing wrong.”
I think that bottom line it is all about the money. Freeman is making way too much money to sit on the bench while another inexperienced QB is out there learning on the job. If they had as much invested in J.J. as they do in Freeman I think he would be the starter for the rest of season. Unfortunately they don’t, and J.J. is the quintessential man in the middle. He shows promise, but not enough promise to keep him in the game when you factor in the financial aspect of it.
You get what you pay for.
by LeeCaz on Oct 28, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow, first sentence fail
It should say “but to expect J.J. to be able to win with a team that a veteran QB like Leftwich couldn’t win with, is preposterous”
You get what you pay for.
by LeeCaz on Oct 28, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe at somepoint, but I dont think JJ was benched sunday for money.
His numbers are declining, and his play is showing a decline visibly too. He seems to be regressing.
If anyone can get production out of Gaines Adams, it will be Rod Marinelli. Good Luck Gaines and thank you Bucs for restoring my confidence that there is accountability.
by Niko Houllis on Oct 28, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without a Doubt a Raw deal For JJ.
Hi everyone just registered long time reader and even longer Buc’s fan. I was a fan of Johnson when they took him out of San Diego in the 5th round. To say his play is declining is a quick snap judgement, I think what Niko had to say first was a better statement OH I think if you take JJ, and put him on a strong team, he does alright. There is no way to tell though.. And there will be a way to tell when he finally goes to another team. You know when I bought this years Madden 2010 video game, I couldn’t believe Johnson wasn’t on the team, not only was he not on the team but he was rated at like a 34 overall in free agency. now he’s the starter, i understand going with the Singletary attitude Whatever gets us wins
But really bringing in Freeman now not only gives him a losing team but a team in dissary which is not what Tom Brady inherited nor did P. Manning.
I would like to see Johnson get a fair shake on trying to right the ship and then hand it to Freeman, if that’s to be the case! 3 games is not a fair shake on such a shakey team.
by AllenK on Oct 28, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He had his chances.
Now he takes his rightfully so spot, on the pine.
by bucnut1 on Oct 28, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
this picture is my avatar. Awesome.
I think I used it for a story awhile back on Bucscentral. A picture says a thousand words, and this one says it all about the mess that is our QB situation. I wonder what would have happened this season if McCown had beaten out Leftwich. Do you think that he would have even made it to Game 3?
You get what you pay for.
by LeeCaz on Oct 28, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It might be a raw deal for Johnson but he got his shot
and the fact of the matter is that we drafted Freeman in the first round to be a franchise QB. Whether or not he turns out to be one is still to be seen obviously, but with our season firmly entrenched in the crapper we might as well put him in there and let him get some experience. Honestly how much can he learn riding the bench behind another (almost) rookie and Byron Leftwich?
by ArsonistSavior on Oct 28, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot depending on what he needed to work on.
Experience can’t fix everything.
by NewLogic on Oct 28, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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